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	<title>Comments on: If one can&#8217;t design without a computer, then is no designer at all</title>
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	<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/</link>
	<description>The Science of Web Art, Design and Development</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 19 Apr 2010 05:02:21 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Marble Host</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1925</link>
		<dc:creator>Marble Host</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-1925</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi,
For the designers the challenges offered by projects like this are entirely positive.You have to learn how to think on your feet and pick up new skill quickly.You also have to deal with clients face to face which can be daunting but very rewarding&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Big Projects can mean big budgets so the rewards can be financial too Nick Hayes of Identikal has been involved in serveral such projects,including a prestigious Ted Baker storefront and interior graphic work for  a flagship Los Angeles store.&quot;I think the best aspect of non- traditional work is that you are entering foreign ground .Where you are so used to working in a specific way from day to day.these projects really do break up the typical workflow and bring a  lot of positive problem to what your are normally used to.We tend to enjoy these projects more than our usual work,so we jump at the chance to get them.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
For the designers the challenges offered by projects like this are entirely positive.You have to learn how to think on your feet and pick up new skill quickly.You also have to deal with clients face to face which can be daunting but very rewarding</p>
<p>Big Projects can mean big budgets so the rewards can be financial too Nick Hayes of Identikal has been involved in serveral such projects,including a prestigious Ted Baker storefront and interior graphic work for  a flagship Los Angeles store.&#8221;I think the best aspect of non- traditional work is that you are entering foreign ground .Where you are so used to working in a specific way from day to day.these projects really do break up the typical workflow and bring a  lot of positive problem to what your are normally used to.We tend to enjoy these projects more than our usual work,so we jump at the chance to get them.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Parkes</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1427</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Parkes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 06:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-1427</guid>
		<description>The comparison with Matisse is probably a valid one, design inspiration is essentially a creative process, a focus on the tool, rather than the mind, will ultimately be to the detriment of product quality. 
 Cheers, Jimi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comparison with Matisse is probably a valid one, design inspiration is essentially a creative process, a focus on the tool, rather than the mind, will ultimately be to the detriment of product quality.<br />
 Cheers, Jimi</p>
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		<title>By: Guilherme Zühlke O'Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1121</link>
		<dc:creator>Guilherme Zühlke O'Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-1121</guid>
		<description>@Mohsin - I see your point and agree. I don&#039;t use paper often myself, but what I mean is that the design occurs mostly in your head, not in the tool, being that paper or computer. Sadly, all too often of people use effects and plugins as a replacement for their own creative mind. Won&#039;t you agree?

@Nubloo - &lt;blockquote&gt;(...)But to make more out of these possibilities, you have to be a designer at heart and soul, not just a guy with Photoshop.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I love the way you&#039;ve put it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mohsin &#8211; I see your point and agree. I don&#8217;t use paper often myself, but what I mean is that the design occurs mostly in your head, not in the tool, being that paper or computer. Sadly, all too often of people use effects and plugins as a replacement for their own creative mind. Won&#8217;t you agree?</p>
<p>@Nubloo &#8211;<br />
<blockquote>(&#8230;)But to make more out of these possibilities, you have to be a designer at heart and soul, not just a guy with Photoshop.</p></blockquote>
<p>I love the way you&#8217;ve put it.</p>
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		<title>By: Nubloo</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1115</link>
		<dc:creator>Nubloo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 14:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-1115</guid>
		<description>Before I had a computer, I discovered my creativity and my passion for design with simple pen and paper. This used to shorten the hours in high school... Later on, when I decided I wanted to make more out of it, I switched to the computer. It is a tool only, as you say, and definitely the best tool ever invented.

I sometimes ask myself what some people think - they have a computer and a version of Photoshop or Illustrator, and they throw some bits and fragments together and call it design.

You need more than a computer to be a designer, it&#039;s just a tool. It opens up nearly endless possibilities. But to make more out of these possibilities, you have to be a designer at heart and soul, not just a guy with Photoshop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before I had a computer, I discovered my creativity and my passion for design with simple pen and paper. This used to shorten the hours in high school&#8230; Later on, when I decided I wanted to make more out of it, I switched to the computer. It is a tool only, as you say, and definitely the best tool ever invented.</p>
<p>I sometimes ask myself what some people think &#8211; they have a computer and a version of Photoshop or Illustrator, and they throw some bits and fragments together and call it design.</p>
<p>You need more than a computer to be a designer, it&#8217;s just a tool. It opens up nearly endless possibilities. But to make more out of these possibilities, you have to be a designer at heart and soul, not just a guy with Photoshop.</p>
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		<title>By: Mohsin</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1019</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohsin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jan 2008 08:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-1019</guid>
		<description>I think this depends on where you feel most comfortable while designing. If I&#039;ve never tried to design on a paper, I&#039;ll certainly have a hard time making sketches with a pen and paper.

Also, when it comes to web design, it would be rather pointless to try and design the whole thing on a paper. How can you ever put together a working layout without the specialized web design tools available on computers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this depends on where you feel most comfortable while designing. If I&#8217;ve never tried to design on a paper, I&#8217;ll certainly have a hard time making sketches with a pen and paper.</p>
<p>Also, when it comes to web design, it would be rather pointless to try and design the whole thing on a paper. How can you ever put together a working layout without the specialized web design tools available on computers?</p>
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		<title>By: guioconnor</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1012</link>
		<dc:creator>guioconnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-1012</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And you got the glory…&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It is true! The glory always go to the one who have done the thing that makes it different from the rest, no matter if it is small or big.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And you got the glory…</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It is true! The glory always go to the one who have done the thing that makes it different from the rest, no matter if it is small or big.</p>
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		<title>By: Mitchell Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1010</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitchell Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:09:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-1010</guid>
		<description>My first exposure to computers came during the heady days of time-sharing, teletypes and paper tape storage.
As a result of this minimalist introduction, the idea of designing WITH a computer was a foreign as walking downtown and talking to someone through a small plastic box.

I have designed many things. Easy things were created in my head, tougher things were scribbled on legal pads, impossible things were -gasp!- worked out with calculators, colored pencils and graph paper.

To me, the process of design IS an art. In fact, I might go so far as to say that design is an end to itself!

Have you ever had flights of fancy, when it came to developing a piece of software? Everything works in this fantasy, because you designed it to. Sadly, bringing these wild things to life may fail due to lack of practical knowledge. 

But, in the old days, you would just send your idea down to the programmers. These poor saps didn&#039;t have a creative bone in their bodies, but they knew how to turn your design into working software.

And you got the glory...

Mitch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first exposure to computers came during the heady days of time-sharing, teletypes and paper tape storage.<br />
As a result of this minimalist introduction, the idea of designing WITH a computer was a foreign as walking downtown and talking to someone through a small plastic box.</p>
<p>I have designed many things. Easy things were created in my head, tougher things were scribbled on legal pads, impossible things were -gasp!- worked out with calculators, colored pencils and graph paper.</p>
<p>To me, the process of design IS an art. In fact, I might go so far as to say that design is an end to itself!</p>
<p>Have you ever had flights of fancy, when it came to developing a piece of software? Everything works in this fantasy, because you designed it to. Sadly, bringing these wild things to life may fail due to lack of practical knowledge. </p>
<p>But, in the old days, you would just send your idea down to the programmers. These poor saps didn&#8217;t have a creative bone in their bodies, but they knew how to turn your design into working software.</p>
<p>And you got the glory&#8230;</p>
<p>Mitch</p>
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		<title>By: guioconnor</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1005</link>
		<dc:creator>guioconnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 17:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-1005</guid>
		<description>@Michael Martine - Such a pitty, I&#039;d like to read it.

Anyway, although the title was a little too provokative, you are certainly right about one thing. The amount of technical work to render a design piece can be too high for a human to complete it.

As the creative process is continuous, you don&#039;t only design before producing, you also design while rendering, so this speed up really matters.

Yet, as Win Crouvel said, the computer itself can&#039;t make your design better, it can only help you lift the technical burden and free you from it.

But as design is concerned I don&#039;t think there is any possibility that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;computers will make humans unnecessary in the future&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael Martine &#8211; Such a pitty, I&#8217;d like to read it.</p>
<p>Anyway, although the title was a little too provokative, you are certainly right about one thing. The amount of technical work to render a design piece can be too high for a human to complete it.</p>
<p>As the creative process is continuous, you don&#8217;t only design before producing, you also design while rendering, so this speed up really matters.</p>
<p>Yet, as Win Crouvel said, the computer itself can&#8217;t make your design better, it can only help you lift the technical burden and free you from it.</p>
<p>But as design is concerned I don&#8217;t think there is any possibility that <a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy.html">computers will make humans unnecessary in the future</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Martine</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1004</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Martine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-1004</guid>
		<description>Sadly, that article is only in the print version of the magazine. But the gist of it was they fed in requirements and parameters into what was essentially a modeling program turned inside-out, and it then &quot;designed&quot; the structure by doing all the mathematical heavy lifting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, that article is only in the print version of the magazine. But the gist of it was they fed in requirements and parameters into what was essentially a modeling program turned inside-out, and it then &#8220;designed&#8221; the structure by doing all the mathematical heavy lifting.</p>
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		<title>By: guioconnor</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1003</link>
		<dc:creator>guioconnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-1003</guid>
		<description>@Michael Martine - I think you have spotted a nice subtlety here, and I will gladly use it to broaden the discussion.

Design is different from Art and while I strongly struggle to accept the idea that a computer can make art (which is different from saying a computer can&#039;t be used as a tool for that) I don&#039;t think a computer can&#039;t produce design elements by itself by following mathematical parameters, in fact &lt;a href=&quot;http://domestikgoddess.com/pick-a-colour-scheme/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;we use tools like these&lt;/a&gt; all the time with great results.

The only thing being that the person behind the computer becomes an operator rather than a designer.

I think the point is that changing the parameters on the program you will need conscious human intervention that can only come from a creative mind (rather than a computer) processing this info.

By the way, I didn&#039;t know Dwell but I liked it, could you point that particular article you mentioned? I couldn&#039;t find it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael Martine &#8211; I think you have spotted a nice subtlety here, and I will gladly use it to broaden the discussion.</p>
<p>Design is different from Art and while I strongly struggle to accept the idea that a computer can make art (which is different from saying a computer can&#8217;t be used as a tool for that) I don&#8217;t think a computer can&#8217;t produce design elements by itself by following mathematical parameters, in fact <a href="http://domestikgoddess.com/pick-a-colour-scheme/">we use tools like these</a> all the time with great results.</p>
<p>The only thing being that the person behind the computer becomes an operator rather than a designer.</p>
<p>I think the point is that changing the parameters on the program you will need conscious human intervention that can only come from a creative mind (rather than a computer) processing this info.</p>
<p>By the way, I didn&#8217;t know Dwell but I liked it, could you point that particular article you mentioned? I couldn&#8217;t find it.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Martine</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-1000</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Martine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-1000</guid>
		<description>Hmm... I think we might be on the verge this not being true. I have recently read an article in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dwell.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dwell magazine&lt;/a&gt; (one of my faves) about a project where they used a computer modeling system that created the design based on parameters given to it. The mathematics and the geometry expressed in the design were impossible to design and also build without sophisticated computers and computerized cutting and fabrication.

However, in order to do anything well, we have to know our history and evolution of the process. So yes, if you were to take away the computers, what could you design? Personally, I still draw better on paper than on a Wacom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230; I think we might be on the verge this not being true. I have recently read an article in <a href="http://www.dwell.com/">Dwell magazine</a> (one of my faves) about a project where they used a computer modeling system that created the design based on parameters given to it. The mathematics and the geometry expressed in the design were impossible to design and also build without sophisticated computers and computerized cutting and fabrication.</p>
<p>However, in order to do anything well, we have to know our history and evolution of the process. So yes, if you were to take away the computers, what could you design? Personally, I still draw better on paper than on a Wacom.</p>
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		<title>By: guioconnor</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-996</link>
		<dc:creator>guioconnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 20:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-996</guid>
		<description>@efrain gomez - &lt;blockquote&gt;...the sense of design should come from within the person, and when all else fails, the design should come to existence by means of simple pencil and paper.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Right! Design is not about tools, is about thoughs, pencils and mice are among the tools available, and it is interesting to see there is space for even much different stuff.

Take for instance &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Matisse&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Henri Matisse&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s experiments with colours. Roughly speaking he didn&#039;t wanted colour to be second best to shapes so he painted first and shaped later, so he used scissors instead of pencils.

Even though Matisse was a painter and not a designer I think the comparison is rather fair.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@efrain gomez &#8211;<br />
<blockquote>&#8230;the sense of design should come from within the person, and when all else fails, the design should come to existence by means of simple pencil and paper.</p></blockquote>
<p>Right! Design is not about tools, is about thoughs, pencils and mice are among the tools available, and it is interesting to see there is space for even much different stuff.</p>
<p>Take for instance <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Matisse">Henri Matisse</a>&#8217;s experiments with colours. Roughly speaking he didn&#8217;t wanted colour to be second best to shapes so he painted first and shaped later, so he used scissors instead of pencils.</p>
<p>Even though Matisse was a painter and not a designer I think the comparison is rather fair.</p>
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		<title>By: efrain gomez</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-995</link>
		<dc:creator>efrain gomez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-995</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;And the Church said, &quot;Amen!&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

I agree that computers are a great tool and they allow for speedy delivery.  But the sense of design should come from within the person, and when all else fails, the design should come to existence by means of simple pencil and paper.

:: efrain</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>And the Church said, &#8220;Amen!&#8221;</b></p>
<p>I agree that computers are a great tool and they allow for speedy delivery.  But the sense of design should come from within the person, and when all else fails, the design should come to existence by means of simple pencil and paper.</p>
<p>:: efrain</p>
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		<title>By: guioconnor</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-994</link>
		<dc:creator>guioconnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-994</guid>
		<description>@Jen / domestika - &lt;blockquote&gt;And sometimes the same things about computers that make the act of creation faster and more easy... are the same things that sometimes get in the way.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Very true, sometimes is just too easy to be distracted with the many possibilities a computer offers these days.

That would deserve a post on its own, maybe even a blog on its own... see, I&#039;m getting distracted already...

On that point, I think if Win Crouvel don&#039;t use computers as fast as he would like, at least I think he doesn&#039;t get as distracted as we, computer geeks. It is a trade-off, certainly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jen / domestika &#8211;<br />
<blockquote>And sometimes the same things about computers that make the act of creation faster and more easy&#8230; are the same things that sometimes get in the way.</p></blockquote>
<p>Very true, sometimes is just too easy to be distracted with the many possibilities a computer offers these days.</p>
<p>That would deserve a post on its own, maybe even a blog on its own&#8230; see, I&#8217;m getting distracted already&#8230;</p>
<p>On that point, I think if Win Crouvel don&#8217;t use computers as fast as he would like, at least I think he doesn&#8217;t get as distracted as we, computer geeks. It is a trade-off, certainly.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen / domestika</title>
		<link>http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/comment-page-1/#comment-993</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen / domestika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 04:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.z-oc.com/blog/2008/01/if-one-cant-design-without-a-computer-then-is-no-designer-at-all/#comment-993</guid>
		<description>True for writers, too! The best computer in the world can&#039;t come up with the orginal ideas, or even a fine expression of old ideas! And sometimes the same things about computers that make the act of creation faster and more easy... are the same things that sometimes get in the way. A simple example: when you hit a bit of a block in the middle of writing an article, it can be all too easy to start mucking about with the formatting instead of worrying about the words. I can certainly see how the *technical tools* might get in the way of the *artistic* part of web design&#039;s creative process, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True for writers, too! The best computer in the world can&#8217;t come up with the orginal ideas, or even a fine expression of old ideas! And sometimes the same things about computers that make the act of creation faster and more easy&#8230; are the same things that sometimes get in the way. A simple example: when you hit a bit of a block in the middle of writing an article, it can be all too easy to start mucking about with the formatting instead of worrying about the words. I can certainly see how the *technical tools* might get in the way of the *artistic* part of web design&#8217;s creative process, too.</p>
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